IconBuffet | Free Icons, Stock Icons, Custom Icon Design

myrheille on Apr 23, 2007

I know 43T uses a "neighbourgh watch" kind of thing to spot spam and fake accounts. I am not sure how useful that would be here since we users don't really have a way to figure out who is a duplicate and who isn't. Anyway, just thought I'd mention that.

josh on Apr 23, 2007

Yeah, sadly we have our ways of knowing who is a dupe and who is not. My main question is how should we deal with those who have duplicate accounts who are actively involved in the community?

justG on Apr 23, 2007

My opinion: Those who don't confess are warned and given a chance to start from scratch. One account, one free delivery, 0 points, 10 tokens. If they don't like the terms, they're welcome to join <sarky>one of the many other free icon sharing online communities</sarky>.

Those who do confess either get to keep the account they created most recently, or the one they created originally minus 50 points per dupe acct and minus any deliveries received from dupe accts. (Your choice, not theirs.)

opello on Apr 23, 2007

I would think the first account would be the one to let them keep. Less any deliveries they sent to themselves. It seems the 'fairest' in my opinion.

BlackBart on Apr 23, 2007

As I invited a few friends to join IB a few days ago, the idea of using my other email address occurred to me. However, just by being friendly, paying for VIP and being prepared to wait for my next token delivery, I've already got a good collection started and have met some sound people.

This site thrives on good will and is blissfully free of the bitchy dialogue which plagues many other communities.

In the spirit of this site I agree with giving people a chance to own up, keep their original account and close down the others (perhaps losing VIP status if they have it). Otherwise, offenders should start from scratch (perhaps without the ability to become VIP)

justG on Apr 23, 2007

@mrgodber: I don't think that anyone should be denied the option of upgrading. VIP membership costs money, and denying the penitent that option hurts IB more than it hurts them. Jmho...

@opello: I agree with you, I think, but thought that deducting "earnings" from an account might create to much extra work for the Chefs, so I suggested the other option as well. I'm also (forgive my self-righteous indignation here) not really overly concerned with "fair" when it comes to offenders' rights. (That's horrible, isn't it? Oh well.)

BlackBart on Apr 23, 2007

That's why I said perhaps. I agree with you.

JSun on Apr 23, 2007

I'd have to agree with justG.

I signed up for IB at work but do most of my site surfing and trading at home. I could have easily created two different accounts but that would have ruined the fun and experience for me. Hopefully if people are given their warning they'll get over it and eventually discover the community spirit that makes this site special instead.

tamashii on Apr 23, 2007

This is a tough nut to crack: what punishment fits a crime of this nature?

Honestly, justG’s suggestion has a nice ring to it. The offender, while being allowed to keep the account, would be penalized accordingly to the degree of their offense. Ultimately, the more they cheated, the more they will suffer (via point and delivery loss - which could also entail losing some badges).

However, that sounds a might lenient as – short of a full ban – there is nothing really to prevent them from trying again? What would really make them understand and consciously decide, “I’m not gonna ‘cheat’ the system again” (or ever)? I think, first, we must determine why people might think it OK to partake in this behavior. One thing: Anonymity. Now, I am not saying to expose these individuals’ personal details once they are confirmed “gamers”, but merely make it quite clear that at some point, they were not playing by the rules.

My suggestion is going to come across as harsh and perhaps a little much for some to take and an offender might ultimately leave over such a thing. The latter being something I am completely not concerned about. This solution would be temporary, but quite effective.

The Scarlet Badge

A warning would first be given to the offender informing them of the suspicion of wrong doing. They are given an opportunity to explain their behavior. Should the justification not be sufficient, then the penal stage is reached. Actions taken at this stage would be similar, if not exactly, as justG described. In addition, they would receive a new, temporary badge. The timeframe for carrying the badge would be determined by the chefs. I don’t believe it necessary to display it anywhere outside their profile page (meaning not to follow them around like the VIP badge does – that would be too extreme).

The internet has many pitfalls; the most egregious being that anonymity breeds ass-hatery. Actually knowing a person may not change their behavior towards others in online communities, but knowing immediately what kind of person is behind the user name might. I completely understand that such a suggestion as this would be perceived as unduly harsh, however, it’s just a badge after all. Cheating the system reduces the enjoyment for others and as it is, no public notification of wrong doing only protects the offender and has no credible threat to prevent the same behavior from them or others.

Had we known watehey was cheating, would we have stood behind him so passionately? Some thought his leaving dramatic and extreme, but some of us also sympathized with him and even defended some of his testimony. I don’t take pleasure in saying that, upon knowing of his dishonesty, I am not sorry to have him gone.

Codemaster on Apr 23, 2007

I think I might have an old account that I'm not using because I forgot the password... Will I get punished for this?

justG on Apr 23, 2007

Y'know, I really have nothing against ass-hatery, it's ass-hattery that I can't stand. </cheeky> And by the way? The Scarlet Badge is hilarious. The Chefs might not go for something so... exposing, but I think it's brilliant. =)

KatieK on Apr 23, 2007

I like the idea where cheaters are stripped of their illicitly gotten icon sets, points, and badges.

Perhaps the violator has a token refill cycle skipped?

Tamashii's idea of a Scarlet Badge is brilliant. I like that the punishment fits the crime.

Hoshichan on Apr 23, 2007

I agree about the Scarlet Badge, that's freaking BRILLIANT.

mik on Apr 23, 2007

As usual, justG and tamashii are particularly brilliant.

The only thing I want to add is that the options available to Chefs should include ways for them to keep or add income, especially if it will take up more of their time.

For instance, a VIP account would be adjusted to reflect a loss of what was obtained by cheating plus some punishment, while a free account would simply be zeroed out. Own up and you have the chance not only to keep the one account, but to upgrade and not loose as much.

Maybe even allow multiple accounts as long as you don't try to hide it from the Chefs, and they are all VIP accounts. The multiple accounts could all get the same free delivery each month.

Xerxes on Apr 23, 2007

I think about a year ago, sometime like that (before the new buffet), I created a second account because I couldn't remember the original's email nor password. The next week, the same thing happened but I remembered the old one but not the new one and that's how it has been ever since. I'm just giving you a heads up incase it comes up, but I didn't use it to cheat. It's just that I couldn't remember the login details and I was using hotmail at the time. But as I mentioned, this was way before the new Iconbuffet if that makes any difference.

pam on Apr 23, 2007

I like simple solutions and having to come up with a whole new system to deal with people who want to break the rules is unfair, unproductive and costly to the folks at IB. "When you sign up for an IconBuffet account, you agree that you will not create more than one account (a duplicate account)." What part of that is not understood? About the only system I would put in place would be a sticky blog regarding duplicate accounts. In regard to the VIPs: warn them privately and give them an opportunity to respond and to delete that account within a time frame. If not a VIP and on a suspect list -- I'd delete under a set of established criteria. Sorry to sound harsh but as many of us know, behind the site is thousands and thousands of hours not in just creating icons but in the app itself -- and for what -- to spend time for a member who obviously can't read and don't want to conduct themselves in an ethical manner and of gratitude for all that IB does? Chefs: Ask yourselves "if I were sitting face to face with someone that I suspected of cheating, would I want to do business with them?" Choose who to lose and call it a day.

justG on Apr 23, 2007

@mik: YouareentirelytookindandnowI'mgoingtomoveonbecauseI'membarrassed.

The main thing is that having permission wouldn't prevent trading to occur between dupe accounts, thereby raising point tallies and stamp totals by cheating. Multiple accounts would only work if they shared a single "bank," which would sort of defeat the purpose of having them (from the creator's perspective), I think.

@everyone: I'm almost certain that nobody who created another account because they forgot the old one's login info (or whatever) needs to worry. It's not like this is an automated process. Afaik, the Chefs have to deal with these cases individually, so it'll be pretty clear to see what happened in your case.

I almost created a second account, on the old IB. I checked the FAQ/rules before I did, and then didn't. Sad thing is (I'm so not diabolical, even when I want to be), I wasn't trying to game the system (what would I do with double icon sets anyway?), I just wanted another 5 deliveries so I could fill more requests on the forums. I'd make a pretty embarrassing thief, I guess.

josh on Apr 23, 2007

Good thoughts all. We'll continue to watch this one and follow up on it. In the meantime, to those of you who created a dupe account in the past that you don't actively use for whatever reason, we understand — and are honestly not concerned.

We are concerned when someone with a duplicate account logs into both accounts every day and actively trades and participates in the community. These are two very different instances.

davethegr8 on Apr 23, 2007

Duplicate accounts ruin the spirit if IB. They are a blatant violation of the rules here, and it ruins much of the opportunity for the rest of us that only use a single account. In my mind, this is a very naughty thing to do, and it should be dealt with very harshly.

I prefer the Scarlet Letter approach, except I think it should be as extreme as possible. If you've got dupe accounts, you should get a badge that identifies you as such. It should be just like a VIP badge, so that everyone knows which is which. Hopefully, peer pressure will encourage the dupers to drop their nefarious ways and stick to the TOC. I'd certainly think twice before trading with dupe accounts.

Jen on Apr 23, 2007

I completely agree with what Pam has said. Not only is it a time sap for the chefs but what about us members who are honest and work hard to collect the sets and send sets to others? How is it fair to us, the users to be among cheaters?

I say ban them delete them and call it a day.

360mcclure on Apr 23, 2007

This has been mentioned above (I think I saw it as I was skimming) but give the offenders a BIG "Scarlett Letter". Make it bigger than any other badge on their page. Also, make a page that posts each of these accounts and lists out the offenders (available via a link on a Forum Sticky Post). Those are my two cents.

Hoshichan on Apr 23, 2007

Public humiliation is SO effective, I highly recommend it. (It's what I do to bad people that steal my layouts, etc. Ah, the power of the blog.)

joshuasbones on Apr 23, 2007

Burn the witches.

DesignGirl on Apr 23, 2007

I'm not going to lie, I maintain 2 accounts!
But here is where things get grey.

I have a personal account that I upgraded to VIP, but my boss asked me to create an account for the company which my colleagues could use to discuss within the forum and gain valuable insight and ideas.

Is this wrong??? I maintain the second account for now but when I leave this company I will still want to have my own account and will no longer have access to the company account. I don't think I am abusing the system, besides I am more in this for myself and if I don't care if the company account has all the icon sets.

Please don't be mad I can't live without my icons!!

If this is an issue please let me know and I will delete the company account asap, and they will be SOL!

Cheers!

josh on Apr 23, 2007

DesignGirl — no worries... again this is not the sort of thing we're worried about. It's definitely easy to tell where someone is attempting to "game" the Buffet — as opposed to someone setting up an account for their employer (say, to keep purchases separate).

electricnet on Apr 23, 2007

I can understand that people who are trying to play the game with two accounts are ruining it for us "fair players", and they should definitely be punished for it in some way, and I agree with most of the things being said here.

I just wanted to add, however, of course I know nothing about how you judge who are duplicates and who are not, but please don't think accounts are duplicates just because they share the same IP address. In my own case, I go to a college where I know there are other people playing the IconBuffet game too, and therefore, we share IP addresses now and then, even though we're different people. Just wanted to get that out here.

sloan on Apr 23, 2007

no witch burning allowed, I love witches

DesignGirl on Apr 23, 2007

@Josh
wwueeefff! That's a relief!)

josh on Apr 23, 2007

FWIW — Most of us chefs use the same IP (from our office here), so we're not simply looking at IP addresses. We have more complex ways of measuring system gaming. We. Know. Everything. ; )

cheiie on Apr 23, 2007

There are a lot of good ideas here. Of course, given dynamic IP addresses, you can't necessarily permanently ban anyone from the site without (potentially) hurting another's account.
I like Tamashii's idea of a 'scarlet badge' and I think it's not only funny and unoffensive, but effective.
In a perfect world, for those actively maintaining two accounts, this post would've accomplished all it needs to.
I didn't see everything posted here, but has there been some consideration to a "bad boys/girls" list - a separate forum with names of people not to trade with. I know that for myself, if this was kept, I wouldn't check it against my friends list and potential trading partners before getting involved.
You could also think about appointing sort of (voluntary) IB monitors or moderators (though neither word sounds proper) which is akin to what someone above said about neighborhood watch.
Blah. Brain dump.

lparziale on Apr 23, 2007

I have referred IB to every web developer I know, friends and family, much like the way people push Amway. Not because I wanted the points (although I am hooked), but because the more people that use the icones, the more IB has the possibility for actual revenue (beyond the VIP accounts). This, in the end, is what keeps cool sites like this free or at a lower cost.

When I was faced with "do I create an account at work and one for home", I read the poicy and low and behold, no dups. So I went the route of erring on the "don't take a chance side".

But I must confess, I have had a client or two sign up and sent them icons to look at. My rationale was if they looked around, they may even find something they wanted that was NOT a free set and perhaps purchase. Again, the greater good was to keep this fantastic resource for our use! (if this is not OK, I will cease and desist, my account is too valuable to jeopardize).

So, my opinion is that the chefs should do that in which supports the future of this space, allowing us to continue to have free, VIP paid and fully purchased sets in the future.

Darn, I should run for an office....

ftapao on Apr 23, 2007

What if I have only one account, but multiple personalities?

redwolf on Apr 23, 2007

I like the idea of public humiliation after a private warning. It gives people the chance to kill off the extra accounts, even if they remain on a Chef watchlist for a while.

As for the scarlet letter, while I haven't run across the behaviour yet, could there be a version for sockpuppets as well as gamers?

debbye on Apr 23, 2007

i agree with multiple personalities, there's me … & then there's Suzan!

to use the old adage: if you play, you have to pay!

this forum should be enough to get attention. if the people don't come forward, notify the culprit, post a nice scarlet letter (bigger than above) on their profile (not publicly), if that doesn't get anywhere, delete all extra accounts and any gains from them back to the original, including badges earned falsely. you shouldn't have to chase down violators.

tho … stocks were very effective in putting a crimp in the lifestyle of those who "hung out"

rajr19 on Apr 23, 2007

just to CONFIRM something

there is another person with a raj in his username - I DO NOT KNOW THIS PERSON

You can ask many of my friends that I personally know - including super||ame| and soprano.

I can assure you that raj is an extremely common name in India and I believe this person lives there. I live in Colorado and have no connection with any person named Raj in India, only my relatives.

If you need me to clear up anything please ask. Check my points log if you can and I can assure you the only thing increasing my stamps is the recent delivery I received.

I would very much like to keep my points, stamps, icons, and tokens as is. I can assure you once again, I DO NOT KNOW THE OTHER RAJ.

mickeyckm on Apr 23, 2007

hi, i maintain 2 accounts as well, because my friend still having some trouble in understanding the trading and now is the exam period, so she asked me to handle it for her. Once, she understood, i will passed it back to her. Kinda lame, but, ya. She often asked me to sign in using my laptop as well to check for her. So hope you guys understand. If not, I will just pass it back to her and ask her to sign in using her laptop.

sloan on Apr 23, 2007

Where is my shameful badge. I have two accounts (from the old days) before tokens and I will shamefully (but honorably) were this scarlet badge of shame (for at least a week) but I only use one account with the new IB. I still shall be punished, release the hounds...

nvrexisted on Apr 23, 2007

I have 2 accounts. How do I have the other one removed?

iconmaster on Apr 23, 2007

@nvrexisted: Log in with the account you want to close. Hit the Account link at the top of the page, then click on "Cancel My Account."

Xerxes on Apr 23, 2007

Anyone else notice the irony in the name of the account she wants to delete? :P

tamashii on Apr 23, 2007

or rather - the irony of the one she wants to keep.

lparziale on Apr 23, 2007

LOL - yes, perhaps a bit of foreshadowing!

dishg on Apr 23, 2007

release the hounds (per sloan)... and burn them at the stake! =)

User dishg is my one and only account in IB though I did change my e-mail address in my profile when I edited my account last March.

So, bad boys, bad girls, whatcha gonna do? IB cops are coming after youuuu (lame, sorry, hee)...

:?

mcd on Apr 23, 2007

I have a dupe account, but it's not used. Actually it was connected to a deleted email address which only recently became activated again when I re-signed with the company I am currently under contract with.

Funny thing is, the old account actually shows a trade between my current account and the old one, but it's from the old days of IB 1.0. We're talking over a year ago, before tokens, stamps, and points were a factor.

I figured I wouldn't even bother the chefs with the request to delete it, but if they want to clean up the servers of inactive accounts, by all means delete account wgMike.

sloan on Apr 23, 2007

I went to cancel my my dupe and it was already inactive. I'm so happy I went to confession earlier, whew, forgive me chefs, I gave myself a scarlet tooth to redeem myself.

twopeak on Apr 23, 2007

I use one account because it's fun.
If people feel a need to have two to get more icons, is it really that bad?
Do we need to punish every behaviour that doesn't follow our expectations?

I think before punishments are being handed out, you should look to the damage it creates.
If the only damage they create is that some people feel offended that they can't get icons as fast; I don't see any reason to punish. If they make the site slower or do things that harm users, then go ahead and punish.

As said, those people are "gaming" the site... if they cheat, they loose out on the fun of (and agony) of choosing what icons your 10 tokens will get you.

sloan on Apr 24, 2007

I think it's great that we can confess (and have) and hopefully save the chefs some much needed time that they have to waste because of this.

mcd on Apr 24, 2007

twopeak: my guess is that the chefs feel more obligated to enforce the rules and prevent unfair receipt of icons and points because there are alot of people that pay for the VIP upgrade to essentially do the same thing. One person pays to get more tokens, thereby getting more icons faster, while another person uses duplicate accounts to do the same thing, AND get more points in the process.

Once you factor in money, as VIP members pay for the service, the chefs likely feel more inclined to make sure that non-paying members are not able to game the system and render the VIP upgrade unnecessary.

crunnells on Apr 24, 2007

twopeak: Also consider that the chefs at IB are making these icons for free, while we're getting these for free, and eating up their bandwidth and hosting each month using this site.

So, the site is supported by the people who pay for the full icon sets, and by the people who are VIP members. Like mcd said, if people are getting more tokens per month via dupe accounts (IE: gaining a VIP number of tokens for free), it's essentially stealing from IB.

I can totally understand what they're taking the stance of protecting their business. If they want to do something drastic to the dupe accounts (say, ban them all?) do you think non-duping VIPs are going to leave the site because of it? Are non-paying IB members going to leave? Probably not.

debbye on Apr 24, 2007

i'm really glad that i don't spend my little bit o'energy on trying to pull one over on others. too many people seem to have the idea that it's OK to be a sleaze, to live life by "i'm gonna get you before you can get me!" most people DON'T (i hope) have an agenda !! maybe, i live life with my head in the sand, but i do so without trying to screw anyone.

we all have been back-stabbed a time or two, & know how it feels. i don't have the time or energy to placate idiots.

i still like the letter A from tamashii, & deleting accounts. why should someone get away with gaining icons "illegally," while I have to wait however many months it will take to acquire them myself?

as impatient as i can be, i can wait.

Betty on Apr 24, 2007

I think that given the terms of use and this blog post, the chefs have given more than ample warning to folks who are gaming the system. I say fess up or buh-bye.

josh on Apr 24, 2007

One other note about all of this, regardless of whether or not you believe punishment for dupe accounts is right / wrong / necessary / unnecessary or whatever... When you create an account on IconBuffet, you specifically agree to only create one account. There is a "circle of trust" here. We're happy to pass out tons of free icons. We just need to have a confidence that our community is on the up and up.

justG on Apr 24, 2007

Exactly. It's no different from violating a software license agreement. *grumble*

Luckybeitia on Apr 24, 2007

Here is my confession: when all this point system started, I really wanted to have a lot of points even without knowing what they are for, so I cheated (I created five duplicated accounts in total). Yeah I know I'm ridiculous and I'm sorry.
The chefs e-mailed me and subtracted 250 points of my bank.
I hope you guys don't start hating me because of this...

josh on Apr 24, 2007

We still love you Lucky. Thanks for coming clean.

justG on Apr 24, 2007

At the risk of sounding like a petty something or other... 250 points? 50 points for the creation of each dupe account? What about the points earned by trading icon sets between those accounts? Am I the only spoil sport who thinks that someone who agreed to the TOS and still created five dupes (agreeing to the TOS five more times, mind) shouldn't emerge from the ordeal with nearly 5400 points, confession or not?

josh on Apr 24, 2007

FWIW — We can tell who you trade with too. While Lucky DID create a couple extra accounts, he never traded with himself. Go figure. I'm not the one to figure out the rationale here, but those are the facts.

iconmaster on Apr 24, 2007

I hear ya, G. It's more than the points, though -- losing a referral takes away the 15 stamps earned for that referral too. So it's actually 1000 potential/actual points lost in total.

Quingawaga on Apr 24, 2007

From the Terms of Use: "Violation of any part of the Terms of Service will result in termination of your account." It's right there. Enforce it!

tamashii on Apr 24, 2007

justG wrote: Those who do confess either get to keep the account they created most recently, or the one they created originally minus 50 points per dupe acct and minus any deliveries received from dupe accts. (Your choice, not theirs.)

Seems half your suggestion was implemented (and likely the 250 points he gained by referral). However, if they were referrals, that gave him 75 stamps which is 750 base points and potentially 1,800 points (if he makes 7 Diamond deliveries). My first guess is that he lost the stamps too. Stamps are powerful things.

He had 5,640 points before his confession. I also hadn’t seen him increase in a while. Scarlet Badge or not, he has made a public showing of his misdeed and I truly appreciate that. Thank you, Lucky. I trust you to have learned your lesson.

PS: You had become quite the “competitor” for me with your point gains. You’re not out yet, so earn it.

justG on Apr 24, 2007

@josh: Really? (He didn't trade with himself.) Wow, okay. You certainly didn't need to explain, but thanks, appreciate it. Okay Lucky, you can take off the dunce cap now. =]

josh on Apr 24, 2007

Also, just so you all know, I'm going to let this thread run a few more hours, then I'm going to close it. We definitely appreciate all the feedback. Two points in closing:

1) One thing that has been mentioned to us countless times is how much people love the general feel-good and drama-free vibe that exudes from IconBuffet. We aim to keep it that way. Unfortunately a post like this is necessary every now and then so we can gather some feedback on potential hot button topics. We'll try to keep these to a minimum.

2) It may seem like there is no resolution to this topic even after I close the thread. Please don't be disappointed if we don't take action right away, or if our response is not what you would have done. There are definitely some gray areas here (socially and legally), and some other issues that are simply not worth discussing in this context. We totally appreciate everyone's feedback. Thanks for helping us make IconBuffet special.

davethegr8 on Apr 24, 2007

@josh and those who run IB -

Thanks for your hard work. I imagine that it could be a PITA tracking down dupes, and then enforcing them, but we all appreciate your effort.

tamashii on Apr 24, 2007

With the good, there is always some bad. Here at IB, the bad is so low that the good is at dangerous levels. And by dangerous, I mean freakin’ awesome! With this kind of ratio, IconBuffet stands to be one of the premier sites of goodwill.

IconBuffet is, by far, one of my most favorite online communities. It really does keep getting better, as well. Keep up the fantastic work and never forget that the overwhelming majority of IBers are behind you guys 110%.*

*Based on no scientific fact or survey, whatsoever.

justG on Apr 24, 2007

tamashii++

austingirl on Apr 24, 2007

Until just a few moments ago I had been maintaining two accounts. I have deleted Trippydrama. I would like to know if others in the community created a duplicate acccount for the same reason that I did. Back in the old IB there was some sort of a glitch where many of us could not login to our accounts. It was days before I could login and finally was able to login to the forum where I found that others could not login, yet some could. I tried everything those who could login told me to try to no avail. It was incredibly frustrating. I'm not a computer whiz, so I wanted to just see if I could create a new account and if I would be able to login to the new account. When I was able to I was surprised. After the glitch was fixed, I couldn't figure out how to delete the new account. I maintained both until today. I have deleted trippydrama and use the Austingirl account. So sorry if anything has been unfair or deceitful. That was never my intention. Excuse my previous ignorance, I have now been educated and will certainly follow all the rules.

justG on Apr 24, 2007

@austingirl: Dont worry about it. You weren't trying to game the system, so it's all good. That's the view that the Chefs and (I believe) most of us have. =)

taario on Apr 24, 2007

I'm loving you brave folk who came forward, you guys are awesome, very brave of you. ^__^

joshuasbones on Apr 24, 2007

Now I want to create a duplicate account, just to confess and delete it.

dishg on Apr 24, 2007

@joshuabones: that made me laugh, really. =)

tamashii on Apr 24, 2007

Ok - iconmaster made one of the most hilarious tweets I’ve seen from him in a while:

iconmaster actually has a dupe account.

BWAHAHAHA!

taario on Apr 24, 2007

Lol. =D

josh on Apr 24, 2007

Alrighty then. Consider this post closed. Thanks all!