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Thoughts On Sniping and Whispering

Happy Sunday Folks... With all the talk about sniping, I thought I should weigh in with a couple thoughts from Chefs, and also run a few ideas past you. So here goes...

First, in case you're wondering what "sniping" is, let's loosely define it as the questionable act of fulfilling a request for icons that was intended to be fulfilled by someone else. For instance, iconmaster asks keegan to send him Manhattan Nightlife, but before keegan can respond, etherbrian steps in and sends the delivery first.

Honestly, it has never been my intent to create a set of rules or guidelines as to how the Buffet works. I'd rather people be friendly and "excellent" to each other — and party on, as it has been said. So don't expect us to write a rule book anytime soon. That's not our style, and I believe it would simply lead to more hurt feelings — which would be dumb, because this site is about having fun.

That said, while I'm not into rules, I am into tools. Okay, that rhyme was pretty lame... sorry. Lemme explain some of my rationale though.

There are a handful of features that we've thought about for the Buffet that we've never implemented because we felt like the features — while useful — would take away from the personal nature of IconBuffet. We like people. So every new feature we add kinda has to go through this grid: Does this feature allow people to communicate better with each other, or does it ad functionality at the expense of personal friendliness. If a feature takes away from the personal nature of the site, we generally shy away from it.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is this: Don't expect a lot of complex features from us to automate and "foolproof" the trading process. That's just not our style.

However, in the case of sniping, I understand how this can be a pain. You really want to trade icons with a certain somebody, and somebody else steps into the middle of the process (knowingly or not) and disrupts the transaction.

So in order for use to give you some help in this area we'll be launching a new feature this week call "whispering". Basically when you make a post to the Box on somebody else's profile, you'll be able to mark that post as a "whisper." A whisper will only be visible to you and the person you are whispering to. No one else will be able to see it.

Now if iconmaster wants Manhattan Nightlife from keegan, iconmaster can go leave a whisper on keegan's Box. And only keegan will be able to see it. Expect this feature to launch in the next couple of days. I think you'll like it.

Also, I'd like to get your thoughts on another idea: I'm not sure if we'll actually do this one, but it's worth asking you all what you think...

Would any of you be interested in a feature where only people you have added to your Friends list can post comments to your Box? Or taken to another level, what if we only allowed your Friends to send you deliveries? These would both be optional (not standard) features that could be turned on and off — and again, I'm not saying that we'll actually add this... but it is something we're evaluating.

Okay, talk amongst yourselves. And be excellent to each other. : )

Posted by josh Vip-micro on May 06, 2007 in Swap Meet | 47 comments

wotan Vip-micro on May 06, 2007

I think both ideas are very useful. The whisper feature and the 'only-my-firends-can-give-me' thing. It is a sober but yet still open minded approach.

JSun on May 06, 2007

Whispering sounds good to me. The last part sounds less inviting to me. I know when I started here last month I had no idea how to recieve icons until random people started sending me icons. I thought that was cool. It also allowed me to find 'friends' straight away. That was very welcoming and has made it so easy for me to participate on this site.

I like to peruse the 'Recent Traders' list on the free delivery page to look for new members (I believe IconMaster suggested this in an earlier blog on using stamps). If I can send new members icons I hope it helps them get involved in the site the same way it did for me.

As for sending icons that someone else has requested from another particular person, I wouldn't do that on purpose. It's a chance I may accidentally do that using my random technique. Maybe that could be stopped though if the whisper system took icons a person has requested out of the available icons list I get when I go to send icons to someone.

redwolf on May 06, 2007

While the whisper feature would sooth some of the people upset about sniping, the friend only option would start to lock the site into cliques. How do you start making new friends if people are hiding behind a gate? I know it's now quite that bad, but I feel it would stifle communication rather than adding to it.

gswd on May 06, 2007

I like the whisper idea.

I'm not real keen on the "friends only" thing, only because it has been stated that there is a limit to the number of friends that we can have, and it may alienate new members. On the other hand though, if it is optional, then a person could decide to keep to their circle of friends, and not be bothered by the barbarians at the gate (so to speak).

josh Vip-micro on May 06, 2007

Good to hear folks. Actually, those were my exact concerns about the "friends only" stuff as well. I'm glad to hear it from you all. Whispering seems to accomplish much of what we're looking for, while still keeping things open and fresh. I guess if you want to limit your communication to friends, you can go to Facebook.

dyar on May 06, 2007

The Whisper feature is a good one, however, I can see one problem. I am always low on Stamps and get quite a few requests in my box. I will generally ask another User/Friend to go in my Box and fill the order for me. I've given away many hundreds of Points this way but the orders have been filled. If another User can't see the requests in my Box I will have to copy the request and paste it into another Users Box which would then make it public again and subject to sniping from their box. Still better than their posting in the main Blog and being subjected to spam with stuff they haven't requested, I guess.

Regarding the second proposition, I would be against that. First the Friends list is limited to 1500, but for some reason my effective cap is 1469. There is no currently feasible way to edit that because if you delete someone on page 10 you go back to page 1. I have deleted quite a lot just to make room for more. I like to say hi to a lot of people and encourage them to add me to their Friends List. In turn when they want Icons they post in my Box, which is why I seldom go out of my Box to fill orders. I could have easily used several hundred more Stamps in the last month. If and when the Friends List is revamped my opinion might change, but for now I have a system that works extremely well for me.

cheiie on May 06, 2007

I like the whispers idea a lot!

One of the questions I have about defining "sniping" is some people are offended by this:
I post a blog offering icons.
It gets seen.
That blog gets a request for a set.
Someone (other than me) fills it.
I think THAT is what a number of people are also upset about - and to me, that's just not sniping. But I'd like to hear the chefs' collective thoughts on it.

As for the friends - I'm not against the idea, but I wouldn't use it myself. I like to roam around and socialize :)

MobiTec on May 06, 2007

@ Cheiie: dont you think that defetes the object of you "Offering" sets?? you have taken the time and effort to post the blog, then someone comes by and "So-called" takes the credit for it (and i know its FUN.. i dont mean taking the credit in a deadly serious way..) (correct me if i've miss-understood your post)

@ Josh: I am SOOOO impressed with the "Wispering" option!! Fantastic work!!
Bou like cheiie and others, i wouldn't use the "friends-only" thing either

josh Vip-micro on May 06, 2007

Yeah, I'm afraid there's not much we can do when someone posts a request for a collection to the blog. It's kinda an open forum, and I don't think we want to limit that.

lparziale on May 06, 2007

Like the whisper feature and agree with everyone else, that the other feature presents too many problems.

cheiie on May 06, 2007

@ MobiTec - No, I don't, at all. I'm of the opinion that the blog forum is just that - a public forum. It's also been said - either by Tamashii or mcd (or both) that if someone makes it known that they are trying to reach/accomplish a goal, then it should be respected. I concur.
Will that always happen? No, probably not. But I think you'll find a far more vast majority of IB members being friendly and respectful than the opposite.
And, no I don't think people should fill requests that were made in a specific user's box, either.
While I'm throwing opinions around, I think that people who LET the points become important totally miss the entire social aspect of the site - making friends, reading blogs, hanging out. For me, that's more fun. I think some people should just take it as it comes, and calm down.

epidemix on May 06, 2007

Whispering = Genius

Ladies, feel free to send me sexy cyber whispers on my box. kthx! ;)

cheiie on May 06, 2007

How could we resist with that big, furry bear?!

anti on May 06, 2007

My stamps are now below a hundred, and as I am getting requests in my box I will likely just send icons only with that method. I have never had a problem delivering that way, but if that ever happened I would probably assume the person got the delivery from a random send. It is like playing whack a mole to recieve from a specific person because of the random deliveries. :)

JBVisions on May 06, 2007

Perfect timing. I was just wondering earlier how I could post a request to someone and make sure they got the chance to fill it. So the whisper idea would be great.

Don't like the other one though. Too much chance that people will get excluded.

VINZ on May 06, 2007

The whisper thing sounds good to me! but in my opinion the second part is killing the spirit of the trading function. i do like random! meet people from everywhere and share something (icons or whatsoever) because we met on the forum, because we like the same movie, listen to the same music, or because i like his avatar... let's play it random! let's go party! [dancing smiley]
To conclude, i'd like to publicly say an enormous THANK YOU to the chefs! thank you for being so open-minded, thank you for sharing with us your thoughts on the IB developpment and finally thank you for that big bunch of fun!

VINZ on May 06, 2007

ah ah! ... the "circle of friend" make me think to "meet my parents" :
you are now on the inside of what I like to call... "the Byrnes family circle of trust."

LOL

bcarneiro on May 06, 2007

Agree with the whispering
Doesn't really like the second idea

debbye on May 06, 2007

i really like the whisper feature.

@dyer if someone requests a set from you & you don't have the stamps, you can go back to "someone's" box & whisper that you can't right now but Josh has that set.

the second feature is fine ONLY if optional. i, personally, want people to stop by, have a cup of tea & chat & i like doing the same. But there may be those of us who really wish to be cloistered, so they can. i don't find that very IBish!!! but … to each !

also … since nobody has mentioned it, leave it to EtherBrian to snipe!

SuperLlamel on May 06, 2007

I really like the whispering idea, and the second one would be okay too.

VINZ on May 06, 2007

@dyar: maybe the whisper message could be "un-whispered" by the author or you ? (definitely, an edit function of posted messages would be great)

Jen on May 06, 2007

I'm indifferent about the whispering option, but it does sound like it would take care of the animosity that some folks feel.

second idea, file 13!

avivagabriel on May 06, 2007

I like VINZ's suggestion that a whisper message remain flexibly "unwhisperable" by the author or administrator. And an "edit" function on posts would be great. As a new member, I made the mistake of posting a comment in crunnell's box, thinking it was a community-wide box, and referred to him in the third person. I'd like to change that...but it's not an option. I haven't been around these here parts long enough to know whether or not I'd get all riled up and full of animosity if someone stepped into the middle of a trade. Maybe we can call this phenomenon "monkey in the middle," with the emphasis on "monkey," rather than using the term "sniping." I really wish people would self-govern, so that we wouldn't have to begin erecting gates here. I have a hunch that the open nature of this site is responsible for some of the mysterious draw I feel towards being here, and even participating. I've never been so verbose or interactive on other participatory sites before. Still, I can see the need for a "whispered message" function, although it would be more appealing if it were reversible, as VINZ suggested.

avivagabriel on May 06, 2007

Oh. And an editing function would surely help for new folks like me who don't realize that paragraphs are really important until after they see their uneditable, blocky, dense, unreadable post.

anti on May 06, 2007

I just like the happy bits...

grrmoose Vip-micro on May 06, 2007

Whisper sounds good but limiting friends in the 2nd part is not so great. ^^

etherbrian on May 06, 2007

I'm innocent! I never stole nothin' from keegan!

tamashii on May 06, 2007

My 2¢, though it sounds similar to everyone else’s (to which I just want to belong so badly): I have seen requests for Private Messaging on this site here and there and this Whispering is excellent. Kudos on coming up with a neater name for the feature as well. I am really looking forward to using this.

Now for feature #2. Playing Devil’s advocate here, but the first portion: “only people you have added to your Friends list can post comments to your Box” doesn’t sound bad at all. Why? Well, let’s consider those that have concerns about random people befriending them. If they have a very exclusive friends list by design, they are also less likely to want random messages left in their box (as a Whisper or otherwise).

The thing to take away from the suggestion is that it could be turned on and off. The extension of the feature — only allowing those individuals on your friends list to send you deliveries — is a bit anti-IB in my opinion. What if none of your friends gets a freshly released delivery? You would have to turn the feature off so you could get the set or wait possibly longer (if ever) for your friends to get it first to then send to you. That’s very clique-ish and not very community-minded.

Whispering: YAY!
Friends Only Messaging: A sound idea, actually.
Friends Only Deliveries: Not so much.

kimberleygrey on May 06, 2007

Whispering sounds brilliant - but the other two suggestions I personally wouldn't use. :)

grantneufeld Vip-micro on May 06, 2007

More ditto’ing… Whisper is good (although I don’t expect to use it very often—if at all).

I’m doubtful about the suitability of the friends-only stuff.

I think there is an actual problem (at least for some people) being identified by this (unwanted/spammish messages and sends). The question I have is what are some ideas for how that problem might be addressed without diminishing the very community-focused approach that IB has taken so far?

Liquix Vip-micro on May 07, 2007

I like that whispering feature. It should be like this:
When a person post anything, the owner of the blog have 15 mins where ONLY he can see the replies. After 15 min everyone can see it. So the reviever doesnt need to sit there waiting forever.

cheiie on May 07, 2007

15 minutes is way too short - there are some friends I have here who I'm willing to wait a few *days* for before looking elsewhere for the set I want.

wmostrey on May 07, 2007

The whisper idea is wonderful :)

I don't think the feature where only people you have added to your Friends list can post comments to your Box is a good idea, since then there is no way for new people to get in contact with you.

The other feature, with only Friends being able to send you deliveries, that I like :) This will stop e-mail spam from people trying to randomly send deliveries just trying to make points. It makes sense, great idea!

ZsaZsa on May 07, 2007

Whisper Yes!

aaroncampbell on May 07, 2007

I like the whisper idea.

josh Vip-micro on May 07, 2007

Thanks folks. I think we've received the feedback we were looking for. Expect whispering to be added soon. Expect that the "friends only" stuff will not be happening anytime soon. : ) Again, thanks for the feedback.

cry187 Vip-micro on May 13, 2007

thanks josh, love the whispering feature. I still love the public box, I'm thinking that people who should visit my box should whisper "only" if they are requesting for icons.

I don't like the "friends only" feature but would welcome it if some people would want it, just make it turn off by default ;)

tamashii on May 14, 2007

live whispering

soprano on May 14, 2007

live whispering?

fuseunderground on May 14, 2007

Whispering is now live

JBVisions on May 14, 2007

Whispering seems to be working but how do you tell?

rajr19 on May 14, 2007

and its here! i like it :)

fuseunderground on May 14, 2007

The whispered messages are green in you blog (vs yellow of normal messages)

soprano on May 14, 2007

sweet

dishg on May 14, 2007

yes, it's nice, I just tested it on you fuseunderground... =)

soprano on May 14, 2007

someone whisper something to me

Novak Vip-micro on May 15, 2007

I like the whispering.

And, I like the unpopular friends-only delivery...but only if it's an option that people can turn on and off at will. That way, I think you can let the people who want to live in their gated trading communities stay there and people who want to roam freely trading can do so.

Better yet, though, would be a way for individuals to designate a new release as one that they would accept from only one person or from the community.

1. I see a new set under "Icons I need."

2. I click it. On the set page, there would be a list of my friends. I can select one or many friends from whom I would be willing to accept the delivery.

3. OR, (and this would be the default, already selected option) I can select the "receive this set from anyone" option.

4. At any time prior to receiving the set, I can go back and change my options...

My two cents.