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VIP's Unite - Token/Stamp Exchange Proposal

In less than 12 hours I will lose 24 Tokens (unless Alexandria Energy is released today in which case it will be 23), due to the fact that there is nothing to spend them on. It's about time to bring the Token/Stamp exchange program to the forefront again, however this time I'm doing it in the form of a proposal that I believe will work. To this end, I have created a Poll so that we can actually see how many people are interested in this proposal.

Background:

1. This proposal would be for VIP's only as an ongoing Perk to avoid any possibility of gaming the system by creating non VIP accounts in order to effect exchanges.

2. This proposal would not introduce any New Stamps/Tokens into the marketplace which could potentially upset the balance. What is out there would merely be redistributed.

3. There are a lot of New School VIP's who are sincerely interested in acquiring all the Sets (which we know will be virtually impossible for them to do given the recent release schedule). They are focused on acquiring the Sets now more than Points since they don't have a full portfolio of Sets with which to make Deliveries.

4. Many of the Old School members have all of the Sets and thus their focus is on building Points. They end up forfeiting many of their Tokens each Month due to the fact that there are not enough new releases to use them all up. They have actually paid for these Tokens which are forfeited, and being able to exchange the un-used Tokens for Stamps would give then a sense of value for their VIP subscription.

5. Something needs to be done along these lines to avoid losing members interest and/or their VIP subscription which is not in the best interest of Icon Buffet.

The Proposal:

1. Create a special exchange page which is accessible by VIP's only.

2. On this page a VIP user could "Bank" a maximum amount of Stamps/Month much like Banking a TimeShare week. The maximum would have to be determined by the Chefs to avoid someone being able to acquire all the Sets through the exchange program in a short period of time.

3. Seeing that there are Stamps available, another VIP user could then exchange some or all of their excess Tokens for these Stamps at a predetermined exchange rate. The exchange would then automatically take place.

4. It is suggested that the exchange rate be initially set at 3 Stamps for 1 Token which is the rounded average Token Value for all Sets currently in the marketplace.

The Poll:

Click Here to go to the poll. If you are a VIP you will be able to vote for or against the Proposal. If you are not a VIP you will be able to indicate your interest in upgrading to VIP if such a proposal is implemented. No names or IP addresses are collected in the process.

Posted by dyar on Nov 26, 2007 in Swap Meet | 64 comments

diverpam on Nov 26, 2007

I think that's a great idea!

jameshilton Vip-micro on Nov 26, 2007

What a great idea, i hope the Chef's agree.

dustybunny on Nov 26, 2007

Very well thought out.

soprano on Nov 26, 2007

Yahoo! (Good idea.)

misterhaan on Nov 26, 2007

so if i’m understanding this correctly, vips with can offer up their stamps, and vips with tokens can cash in their tokens for those stamps. seems reasonable if there are enough vips wanting to turn their stamps into tokens...

if this were slashdot, i’d complain that there’s no option for “i’m not a vip and this doesn’t make me more likely to become one”

iconbill on Nov 26, 2007

Dyar, I am in need of Manhattan Tech Toys if you could send me that please? Im new here and you dont need any icon sets I can see or I would send you some.

dyar on Nov 26, 2007

Bill - I'm out of Stamps right now (have plenty of Tokens though). I'm sure that the next person that reads this post will be happy to send it to you.

iconbill on Nov 26, 2007

thanks dyar

BrownFreelance on Nov 26, 2007

Excellent idea dyar.

debbye on Nov 26, 2007

you'll have to excuse my ongoing blond moment, but why do i want to give up my stamps into the "account" in the first place? am i giving up 3 stamps to gain a token? since i am only missing 11 sets, i will soon be at a place where i won't want to give up my stamps. i would imagine that a lot of VIPs are there as well, not having enough stamps to make deliveries.

So, i guess i am asking, where are all of these stamps coming from?

rajr19 on Nov 26, 2007

nice idea. thanks a lot for making this.

anti on Nov 26, 2007

debbye, I read it to mean you would give up 3 stamps to get a token. This might be more use to the newest members who are missing more sets than you are.

jameshilton Vip-micro on Nov 26, 2007

@deddye, Hi, i think the stamps will be coming from the newer VIP's who are more interested in collecting sets and so have more stamps. they can exchange their stamps for tokens from the VIP's that have collected all the sets.

debbye on Nov 26, 2007

Gotcha! thank you much!

Jan on Nov 26, 2007

I'm losing 18 tokens tomorrow. I'm definitely signing my name to this petition.

cartuning on Nov 26, 2007

Nice ideal.

bjendrick on Nov 26, 2007

I'm still about 2 months out for having all of the sets, but I'm in favor of this idea. Even to give away some stamps for now, to get the last of the sets. Great idea, Dyar!

KAHRules on Nov 26, 2007

I always read how people are constantly out of stamps or tokens. So I vote YES to Dyer's proposal. I think this is an excellent solution for those who are constantly running out. I on the other hand have too much of everything. (342 stamps & 16 tokens which will be forfeited on the 28th) I believe my yearly VIP subscription will expire in April and I am wondering if I will renew my VIP membership. At least Dyer’s idea provides VIP’s with another type of exclusive benefit. Good Going Dyer!

misterhaan on Nov 26, 2007

i often have no stamps and no tokens, but i'm not vip so that would probably change things for me

elnitido52 on Nov 26, 2007

Nice try...but it won't work...
The exchange rate must be the same amount as the chefs' otherwise the system will be unbalanced...
Explain:

I have 6 stamps and put them in the bank...
I get 2 tokens for my 3 stamps...
I spend my tokens buying 2 Bronze sets...
I get 10 stamps from the chefs by getting the Bronze sets...

I started with 6 stamps, now I have 2 new Bronze sets and 10 stamps in my pocket...something is wrong here...I can have the sets I want and still have stamps...It won't work...even if you put 5 stamps for 1 token...because you arrr... getting the same amount of stamps back...It won't work...

rajr19 on Nov 26, 2007

ha, elnitido52

MrDee on Nov 26, 2007

@elnitido52 why allow logic to get in the way of a good idea.

dyar on Nov 26, 2007

@elnitido52 - It's based on an average of all the Sets outstanding. Of course it won't work if you use the scenario of buying all Bronze. Try your formula of spending 9 Stamps to get 3 Tokens and and then buy 1 Silver Set, or spending 15 Stamps to get 5 Tokens and buy 1 Gold Set and you will come up with totally different results. Since the Average is based on approximately 50% Bronze, 25% Silver and 25% Gold, try it with spending 30 Stamps and getting 10 Tokens, then buy 2 Bronze, 1 Silver and 1 Gold.

louiemctool on Nov 26, 2007

i would personally say no.

sure, you are paying for "tokens" that you're losing, but honestly, look at the quality and quantity of icons you've acquired for the rather low price of a VIP membership.

just my point-of-view, but i would be willing to bet the chef's answer is "no."

:D

nickpixel Vip-micro on Nov 26, 2007

Even though I've still got a while to go before I'd use a system like this, I think it's a good idea. From a development standpoint, why not make it less complex? Trade stamps/tokens (at a predetermined rate) like icon sets. Maybe it could be a button (like the "Send Delivery" button) that shows up when a VIP is viewing another VIP profile. Even simpler, you would just see 2 new options in the "Send Delivery" dropdown. One for "1 Token" and one for "3 Stamps". The the VIP could accept or reject the trade. The bank seems complex.

elnitido52 on Nov 26, 2007

@dyar - That way I get 20 stamps back out of 30 and I I have got 2 Bronze sets, 1 Silver set and 1 Gold set that only cost me 10 stamps...still not work...

gswd on Nov 26, 2007

Ok. I've let this percolate around in my brain for awhile now, and I don't like it. Yes I am one of those that loses tokens, and never seem to have enough stamps when I need them, but I think the idea of swapping tokens for stamps just doesn't work. In the past I have advocated for a means to gift sets to others, but I can also see problems with that now.

To me, if there was a community bank, then it would have to "self adjust" based on supply and demand, much like the vendors in some of the MMOs do. Don't know if that would be possible.

mrspoomp on Nov 26, 2007

@dyar: the idea is good; just like every good idea, it has to be developed. we cannot let the stamp/token imbalance conundrum rest solely on dyar's shoulders. i agree we paid vip to get the quality icons, but the fact is that the "value" has been limited as of late. and yes, as a vip, it's tough to stay vested in something that you can't participate in. if we keep throwing out ideas, one of them just might stick...

ZsaZsa on Nov 27, 2007

Why do tokens need to be reset at all?

Why can't we just add to what we already have?

dyar on Nov 27, 2007

@ ZsaZsa - if that were the case I would have over 100 Tokens right now and still nothing to buy.

Wile Vip-micro on Nov 27, 2007

I just need stamps ... so I voted YES ...

maybe something like at the NASDAC ? I mean each IBer says I'm selling n tokens against m stamps ... that way, the system will equilibrate by itselt like in the stock exchange in wallstreet ...

elnitido52 on Nov 27, 2007

The only way that it could work is...I suggested it a few months ago...an script that at the moment of a VIP refill verifies if the member still have some tokens and if he/she has all the sets available...then the system may convert those tokens into stamps (5 to 1)...
This has been discuss before...

JBVisions on Nov 27, 2007

When I spoke to the chefs about this ages ago I was told they were working on something. Having had a look at screen shots for PackRat, which show tokens, are you sure that it's not possible to use excess tokens over there?

dyar on Nov 28, 2007

Having had a look at screen shots for PackRat, which show tokens

I don't recall seeing seeing screen shots for PackRat, where are they located? (you can whisper if you like)

tylermenezes on Nov 28, 2007

Why not just switch any tokens left at the end of the cycle over to stamps (a 1:1 or 2:1 ratio would be fair) before they're refilled. Keeps people from gaming the system, and you could make it VIP only as an added reason for people to become VIPs.

MrDee on Nov 28, 2007

@Wile interesting concept - a trading floor

gswd on Nov 28, 2007

@JBVisions - I seem to remember reading that, at least in the beginning, that PackRat would be separate from IB, so the "cross platform tokens" is not something that is going to be there, at launch time at least.

tamashii on Nov 28, 2007

My only issue with it is that you introduce trade of currency elements in the system's economy. This has always caused more problems than it solves.

However, it does appear to be "blind" and likely runs on a FIFO dispensing model so there may be no benefit for someone to flood the bank with stamps. Ultimately, I just don't know and always feel apprehensive when virtual currency can be traded in any system.

slypix on Nov 28, 2007

I think it would be nice, to have the option to send a free delivery, so when a VIP sends a delivery, and they have tokens, it would give you the option "would you like to gift this set?" if not the receiver needs tokens to accept it like usual.

nickpixel Vip-micro on Nov 28, 2007

I like tylermenezes's idea.

aaroncampbell on Nov 28, 2007

I just thought I'd chime in that I don't care how they do it, but I'm tired of not having stamps.

Jen on Nov 28, 2007

Hmm.. What if the chefs set up a fake delivery that costs tokens. Only the chefs could send it out. Once accepted, the person will have spent tokens and then gained stamps. Perhaps this 'fake' set could be sent out periodically to everyone so that all people can participate if they want to convert tokens to stamps.
The 'fake' set would need to be set up so that it wasn't added into our collection. Surely that is feasible?

lostinxlation on Nov 28, 2007

I like the principle.

MrDee on Nov 28, 2007

With code all things are feasible - but not all things are destined to be implemented.

austingirl on Nov 29, 2007

@aaroncampbell - I agree!
@Jen - You may have something there.

hjsg on Nov 29, 2007

We don't need a fake delivery - just let us delete sets from "Icons I Have" so we can use our tokens to accept a real delivery.

jflint on Nov 29, 2007

What about an option. Ticket/Stamp exchange for those VIPs with all sets and Rollover for VIPs that are still collecting.

misterhaan on Nov 29, 2007

if you’re still collecting then you shouldn’t need rollover. the only reason i’ve ever wanted it is that other than getting 1 diamond or 2 gold, i can’t use up 10 tokens without taking a bronze . . . so i just get as many bronze as i need to to use up the last 1 or 2. that would be a problem for me though if the bronzes i don’t have ever runs out.

BrownFreelance on Nov 30, 2007

Do any of the chefs have any thoughts on this?

elnitido52 on Nov 30, 2007

Chefs arrr... PackRatbusy...

jameshilton Vip-micro on Dec 05, 2007

I like Jen's idea, The Chefs could send a delivery of 5 stamps, it would work the same as a set delivery but you would just get the stamps. ie, Chef has sent you 5 stamps would you like to accept? Yes or No. Each stamp delivery would cost 1 token.

mcd on Dec 05, 2007

I'm guessing the Chefs won't be touching this one.

And I can't say I necessarily blame them.

iconmaster on Dec 05, 2007

The fundamental problem with any stamps-for-tokens proposal is that we've always made a point to prevent VIP status from affording any score-building advantage.

I.e., our goal has been that non-VIPs and VIPs would compete on the same playing field. More tokens gets you more sets, but not more opportunity for points.

Someone will point out that getting more sets in a month gets you more stamps, and this is true -- but only in that month. The total number of stamps that can currently be earned by collecting sets is 775, and that's true whether you're a VIP or not. VIPs simply collect those more quickly than non-VIPs.

Making it possible to convert tokens to stamps changes this. Now, the VIP can pull stamps out of thin air every month, at a rate which the non-VIP could never hope to match. In such a scenario, the non-VIP must either upgrade or give up altogether on competing.

You might think the chefs would love that idea ("hey, more monies!"); but, oddly enough, we don't. We feel IconBuffet should be wholly playable whether you upgrade or not. You might have to work harder as a non-VIP, and it might take longer, but the odds are not stacked against you.

At the same time, we are not terribly worried about burned tokens. As long as there are more than 10 tokens worth of sets being released a month, your VIP sub is doing you good. (In fact, the original plan was that we'd never release more than 10 tokens worth of sets a month -- VIP was supposed to be a way to catch up on "back issues," not a requirement for collecting new releases. Somewhere along the way we got... more enthusiastic with our release schedule. ;)

MrDee on Dec 05, 2007

Thank you for your reply.

debbye on Dec 06, 2007

so … i guess that's a no.

dyar on Dec 06, 2007

At the same time, we are not terribly worried about burned tokens.

That is to say that you are not concerned about VIP's, the ones that pay your bills.

As long as there are more than 10 tokens worth of sets being released a month, your VIP sub is doing you good.

Not exactly. Look at the top 50 users, 34 of which are VIP's, and all of which would receive at least 12 Tokens per month. Subtract the Free Deliveries from the amount of Sets released and even at 15 Tokens worth of Sets released each month it wouldn't make much sense for these folks to continue their VIP membership.

As the release schedule goes down even the VIP's who are not in the top 50 will see that they can go VIP 1 month out of every 3 or 4 (instead of monthly) and still keep up.

rossanyl on Dec 06, 2007

As the release schedule goes down even the VIP's who are not in the top 50 will see that they can go VIP 1 month out of every 3 or 4 (instead of monthly) and still keep up.
Hey, shut! that was my plan...

iconmaster on Dec 06, 2007

Bonus tokens are sort of beyond the purview here, as they effectively constitute a free alternative to going VIP. If you can work up to, say, 10 bonus tokens a month, the VIP option might not look very attractive. We realize that.

MrDee on Dec 06, 2007

perhaps excess VIP tokens could co toward commercial icon sets? the VIP has paid real money - why not allow this to be diverted?

iconmaster on Dec 06, 2007

VIPs do get a $25 discount on any and all stock sets.

jameshilton Vip-micro on Dec 06, 2007

could we have some more starter sets please? ;)

jmnovak on Dec 06, 2007

Or if you want to maintain the separation between the commercial sets and the free sets, have a special kind of free set that is not tradable; could even be something like small numbers of vector icons - say, 1 token buys you 1 vector icon or the like. Not tradeable, so it wouldn't affect the game balance, but would allow people with spare tokens to get extra value... of course, this assumes that enough extras could be created to compensate (which is why I suggest something like 1 token per icon, might be easier than full sets).
(Just a thought, I haven't really worked through whether it would be a good idea.)

aaroncampbell on Dec 06, 2007

The main problem here, is that while VIPs DO pay, it's a small amount, and I'm sure that more revenue comes from the ads.
The harsh reality is this: Until more people suffer from the same problem, they won't be pressured to fix it.

Until that happens, Try to ignore the game, and just collect the icons.

louiemctool on Feb 07, 2008

um, i honestly don't care if/when i lose icons, but maybe there is a slightly more reasonable solution that i don't think anyone has mentioned...

perhaps an intermediate subscription level could be implemented?

1). lower fee,
2). less bonus tokens (maybe get 15 or 20 tokens instead of 30),
3). and of course a different badge.

of course, i also have bought most of the blog/cms sets (working my way up to justifying a starter set), so maybe i just have money to throw away...

:p