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ajax on Feb 17, 2008

“It is amazing that people who think we cannot afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, and medication somehow think that we can afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, medication and a government bureaucracy to administer it.” - Thomas Sowell

gswd on Feb 17, 2008

I'm not saying that I agree with "Socialized Healthcare", but what do you suggest? "Only the strong survive"?

a2 on Feb 17, 2008

Pay it out of your taxes or pay it out of pocket/insurance. Either way you pay for what you get.

The only time I experienced socialized healthcare was in London when someone I was traveling with was in a traffic accident. He wanted a CAT scan done, plus some other things. Good luck, his Doc's said, the waiting list is extremely long for that so unless your illness is serious, you won't be getting one anytime soon. (the guy hurt was an airline pilot, he was worried about being able to go back to work, FAA has strict requirements after a head injury).

Staying in the hospital for 5 days he ended up flying home with 2 broken bones not in a cast. They only have the guy come in to do casts once a week & we'd just missed him.

Basically the people (Doc's & Nurses) were wonderful. The equipment was like we'd walked back in to the 1950's. One of the nurses told us people who had money and had serious illnesses usually paid out of pocket to go to a private hospital or went out of country for treatment.

So not sure if I'd throw my support in for socialized medicine.

SpacesEnd on Feb 17, 2008

The problem is, whenever you let the government do this sort of thing, managing prices, rather than a free market, it never works out well, because they're just not that good at it.

SpacesEnd on Feb 17, 2008

For those who don't really understand this, or maybe even those who do, I'll give a somewhat brief rundown of why this doesn't work. Please, I'm open to opinions, so let it be known if you disagree.
OK. So, let's say, for example, you broke a bone in your ankle. You could get an X-Ray, or an MRI. Now, in some situations, the guy's gonna need an MRI, because X-ray would not be detailed enough. The only problem is, if everyone wanted an MRI, it couldn't happen. There's not enough MRI machines, not enough doctors to do it, exedra, exedra, exedra. So, how do you decide: Who gets an MRI, and who doesn't?
Do you make it a lottery?
Do you have the government Randomly pick and chose?
OR
You have it cost more money.
Now what happens, is that those who work harder and have more money, get to have an MRI.

NOTE: When I said the following quote:
"Now what happens, is that those who work harder and have more money, get to have an MRI."
Those who disagree with this general idea, disagree with capitalism, and that's a whole other topic.

So what'll happen with socialized medicine, is that you pay it in taxes. And people think: Yes! it's perfect! We're forcing them to buy Health Insurance!

To start, people think it's so simple, and that people should all just get Health Insurance. Done. Just like that. And why don't we?
CAUSE ITS REALLY FRIGGIN' EXPENSIVE!
What people don't realize is that Health insurance is, in most situations, not worth it, and WAY to expensive to be within realistic margins. If you want people to pay for those who don't have enough money when they DO get hurt, set up charities, funds, exedra:
DONT FORCE THEM TO DO SO.

Anyway. This is what'll happen under socialized medicine.
I'm a guy who has a bad type of cancer, and am in serious pain (NOTE: THIS EXAMPLE HAS ACTUALLY HAPPENED IN CANADA). So I rush to the hospital, and explain the emergency as best I can, I need to be cured! This could get really bad! And what o they do to RUSH to my aid?
They put me on a waiting list.

If you'd like to hear more, I've got loads more of it, but I think that's a pretty good summary of it all. Whadas everyone else think. Please Comment.

marr on Feb 18, 2008

This past week I heard one London native describe the healthcare in her hometown as "rubbish." Her father cannot even get stitches out in a timely manner.

Personally, my 2-yr old daughter had open-heart surgery last year. It's a great comfort to have found a terrific pediatric cardiologist group who recommended a pedia-cardio surgeon at a hospital that recruited him to build their prestige. It'll take 18-months to pay my portion of the bill, but I'm glad I am in the US.

I do believe there should be some reforms though. Insurance dictates what doctors can charge for their services. Doctors that can't make enough, may end up leaving their practice or the really good ones go cash-only. The bad docs code earwax removal as surgery so a co-pay visit now incurs a deductible. Big pharma companies decide what doctors should prescribe and keep the costs high on branded meds. Pretty soon, businesses may not be able to afford to offer health benefits to employees.